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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

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Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 212	Posted - 2011.10.30 18:50:00 - [1] - Quote I'll tell you why. Because everyone that plays EVE Online is looking to escape from their real life. Sometimes that means for some of us becoming something we are not in real life. The average person that plays EVE Online in reality would never walk over to anyone sitting at a stop light and shoot them in the face and then laugh about it. Why? Cuz' the response to that would end their life as well. But in EVE, it is okay to become that gun weilding maniac and laugh at the victim. Hell its encouraged. If you play a video game and expect a moral compass, you are going to be very very upset with EVE. It doesn't and won't exsist. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 222	Posted - 2011.10.30 19:21:00 - [2] - Quote Huehuehue wrote: Mortis vonShadow wrote: I'll tell you why. Because everyone that plays EVE Online is looking to escape from their real life. Sometimes that means for some of us becoming something we are not in real life. The average person that plays EVE Online in reality would never walk over to anyone sitting at a stop light and shoot them in the face and then laugh about it. Why? Cuz' the response to that would end their life as well. But in EVE, it is okay to become that gun weilding maniac and laugh at the victim. Hell its encouraged. If you play a video game and expect a moral compass, you are going to be very very upset with EVE. It doesn't and won't exsist. I play EVE to "escape" from real life just as much as the next guy, but I know I bring my real life morality with me to the game, I mean how could you not? That's not something you just turn off. Well, thats you. Some of us others what to be something we aren't in real life. I believe they call it escapism. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 222	Posted - 2011.10.30 19:41:00 - [3] - Quote KaarBaak wrote: Miners are all bots. How can I have empathy for a machine? I'm not a bot. I mine every other day in hisec. Right now, I'm sitting in station waiting for the local gank squad to depart so I can go back to it. If they kll me will I whine? No. I'll say to them good show. Its what drives EVE. Some of us are builders, others destroyers. Its not a moral issue at all. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 223	Posted - 2011.10.30 20:14:00 - [4] - Quote Flakey Foont wrote: No one "leaves their morality at the door." You are moral or you are not. If you enjoy inflicting distress on others in a game you no doubt enjoy it in RL as well. Oh, you know this for a fact? I enjoy the suicide gank as much as the Goons do. Does that make me a knuckle dragger? Back in 1990 I went to Liberia with the US Marine Corps and helped save 5000 Americans and Europeans from the violence there. So, you tell me. Am I a knuckle dragging *******? Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 223	Posted - 2011.10.30 20:16:00 - [5] - Quote Tippia wrote: Flakey Foont wrote: If you enjoy inflicting distress on others in a game you no doubt enjoy it in RL as well. If you enjoy shooting people in the face in CoD, you no doubt enjoy it in RL as well. If you enjoy winning at Monopoly, you no doubt enjoy oppressing people in RL as well. If you enjoy killing Orcs in D&D, you're no doubt a racist in RL as well. Or, as they say, lolno. +1 for Tippia. You're my hero. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 223	Posted - 2011.10.30 20:25:00 - [6] - Quote Vigdis Thorisdottir wrote: Mortis vonShadow wrote: [quote=Flakey Foont] Back in 1990 I went to Liberia with the US Marine Corps and helped save 5000 Americans and Europeans from the violence there. So, you tell me. Am I a knuckle dragging ******? Well, you did* say you were a marine.../inter-branch humor hehehe fair point. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 223	Posted - 2011.10.31 00:49:00 - [7] - Quote Covert Kitty wrote: A lone miner without any friends lost eve way before they lost that mining ship. I'm a lone miner. Will you be my friend? Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 224	Posted - 2011.10.31 02:44:00 - [8] - Quote Justin Credulent wrote: The thing is, whether or not it's "part of the game" or "not against the rules"... the fact is your actions are still 100% your choice. Players who try to hide behind lines like "nowhere in EVE is safe" or "the GMs allow it" or "it's just part of the game" are moral and intellectual cowards trying to pass off blame for their own actions (and guilt) onto an innocent third party. Why should I be a good person in a game where there are no scripted bad guys? Why can't I play the bad guy so you can play the good guy? Did you ever play cops and robbers as a little kid? If so, which were you? If you were the cop, and your friend was the robber, did he grow up to become a sociopath? Or were you the robber? If so, are you a sociopath now? Just asking. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 224	Posted - 2011.10.31 11:33:00 - [9] - Quote Zombatar wrote: @ OP Well said. EVE offers you all possible ways to play. I for one never lost my morality when I engage with this game - I am the same person. I PvP and have lots of fun. You can guess I am not a pirate, hell I pop pirates for fun. I play under NRDS and it's the only policy worth fighting for in EVE. The difference between a shooter game and Eve is that Eve gives you a choice, while a shooter is just that a shooter, you kill others. Unfortunately many people would behave exactly as in the game in RL, were there no police to stop them. Just look at the UK riots that happened not too long ago. EVE is a perfect reflection of the REAL people that play the game. If they do not do that in RL that does not erase the fact that they are immoral and starving for attention and the pleasure of inflicting pain to others. Its happening all over the world in RL already, millions die at the expense of a few wealthy people. There is no excuse for your actions in EVE, THEY DEFINE YOU as a player and as a person. If you don't do that in RL that does not erase their relevance. This guy and others like him, really need to step away from computer games. Its obvious to the rest of us that EVE is getting into your heads and you guys are loosing sight on what is real and what is make believe. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 238	Posted - 2011.10.31 20:02:00 - [10] - Quote Lemme guess, you were one of those kids that when it was time to play cops and robbers, went and sat on the swing and contemplated his navel. "Oh, look, lint!" All EVE is, is an adult version of cops and robbers. Looking any further into it than that is silly. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 241	Posted - 2011.11.01 11:37:00 - [11] - Quote Karl Planck wrote: Let me illustrate the difference in case it isn't clear. I have a child. That child is a serial killer. I think their actions are immoral and cut of communications with them and remove them from my will. My other child plays eve. He robs me blind and pods my in my 5bil isk pod. I am broke and a sad panda. I think their actions are immoral and cut of communications with them and remove them from my will. Anything out of place their between those two examples? Yes. You have children. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 242	Posted - 2011.11.01 15:21:00 - [12] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Actually, you've done me a huge favour - it's such a relief to come out into the open and say it out loud. Now if we can get you to come out into the open and address that other issue of yours. wink wink nudge nudge Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 242	Posted - 2011.11.01 15:22:00 - [13] - Quote Barakkus wrote: It is fun to shoot people. As long as its not the chairman of the CSM, right Barakkus? Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 244	Posted - 2011.11.02 01:34:00 - [14] - Quote Twisted Alice wrote: Fortunately for most people they don't consider themselves animals... I'm a mineral. No no no thats not right. I'm a plant. Yeah, thats it, I'm a semi-aquatic space potato from the 83rd dimension. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 246	Posted - 2011.11.02 15:59:00 - [15] - Quote Ambassadeur Ur-Shulgi wrote: ... we need to start using a much harder policy on bad behavior..... Define bad behavior. Because to me, killing anyone in hisec isn't bad behavior, its good clean livin'. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 247	Posted - 2011.11.02 17:20:00 - [16] - Quote Jack Carrigan wrote: And furthermore, I do what I want. This. +1 Jack. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 275	Posted - 2011.11.03 12:02:00 - [17] - Quote The term GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ can be used either descriptively to refer to some codes of conduct put forward by a society or, some other group, such as a religion, or accepted by an individual for her own behavior or normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons. What GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ is taken to refer to plays a crucial, although often unacknowledged, role in formulating ethical theories. To take GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ to refer to an actually existing code of conduct put forward by a society results in a denial that there is a universal morality, one that applies to all human beings. This descriptive use of GÇ£moralityGÇ¥is the one used by anthropologists when they report on the morality of the societies that they study. Recently, some comparative and evolutionary psychologists (Haidt, Hauser, De Waal) have taken morality, or a close anticipation of it, to be present among groups of non-human animals, primarily other primates but not limited to them. GÇ£MoralityGÇ¥ has also been taken to refer to any code of conduct that a person or group takes as most important. Among those who use GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ normatively, all hold that GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ refers to a code of conduct that applies to all who can understand it and can govern their behavior by it. In the normative sense, morality should never be overridden, that is, no one should ever violate a moral prohibition or requirement for non-moral considerations. All of those who use GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ normatively also hold that, under plausible specified conditions, all rational persons would endorse that code. Moral theories differ in their accounts of the essential characteristics of rational persons and in their specifications of the conditions under which all rational persons would endorse a code of conduct as a moral code. These differences result in different kinds of moral theories. Related to these differences, moral theories differ with regard to those to whom morality applies, that is, those whose behavior is subject to moral judgment. Some hold that morality applies only to those rational beings that have those features of human beings that make it rational for all of them to endorse morality, viz., fallibility and vulnerability. Other moral theories claim to put forward an account of morality that provides a guide to all rational beings, even if these beings do not have these human characteristics, e.g., God. _________________________________________________________________________________________________ If you put so much effort into EVE that it becomes personal when something happens to you, you need help. Why? CUZ ITS A GAME. It has moved beyond escapism to obsession. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 276	Posted - 2011.11.03 12:35:00 - [18] - Quote Twisted Alice wrote: For me, I've decided to play something else, because I don't see this community going anywhere. Just contract all your stuff over to me before you unsub. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 281	Posted - 2011.11.05 15:10:00 - [19] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Simply because you CAN do something does NOT mean that you SHOULD do it. So everyone that plays EVE should be good little fellows and not upset the herd? Wouldn't that get dull fast. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 281	Posted - 2011.11.05 16:10:00 - [20] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Not all. No, what is disturbing is how many want to be turds. I think it is probably perpetuated bullying. They get hell at school or from their boss at work then want to find a way to make other people miserable. I agree with your statement here. But, how do you beat a cyber bully then? The same way you beat one in real life. You stand up to him/her/them. You may get a beating. But thats nothing compaired to the humiliation that you feel when you back down from the bully(s). Plus, once you stand up to a bully. He/she/they usually back off because they realize you can't be pushed around anymore. Atleast not without a fight. And bullys are all the same, inperson or online. The best way to stop all this nonsense is to organize. But, and you have to agree with me here, its easier to come to the forums and complain about it and talk about morality in gaming, or changing game mechanics, etc, etc... Right now as a hisec miner, I'm being harrassed in game. Am I going to complain? Nope, I'm taking the fight to them. Where and when they least expect it. Within the rules of the game. Will I loose? Probably. But, after going at them over and over and over again. I think they'll move along to someone else. Hopefully. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 281	Posted - 2011.11.05 16:25:00 - [21] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: To blow up even one ship of all the turds that I have seen floating in this game would take a ridiculous amount of time and effort. That is just me. Then those people I am trying to organise? They too have a looooooong list of people they would like to hit back against. Agreed it would take a lot of time to organize and execute. Are you going somewhere? Are you quiting EVE anytime soon? Time is on your side. Don't make the mistake alot of newer and some older players make, EVE is not an instant gratification game. Research your target, come up with a plan, practice the plan, then execute same. Plus, anything worthwhile in EVE will never come easy. You know that. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 281	Posted - 2011.11.05 18:02:00 - [22] - Quote I so guess, from my perspective atleast, its not really a question of morality in game, so much if you percieve yourself a victim or not. Me, not so much. Neither a bully nor a victim. Just an average capsuleer trying to make his way in this uncaring and unforgiving universe we call New Eden. As for the post about burning dogs and torturing animals: Even as a disabled Marine, I would end up in prison if I stumbled upon something like that. I don't care how many were in their "group". Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 281	Posted - 2011.11.05 21:41:00 - [23] - Quote Bischopt wrote: It's absolutely ridiculous how people make these connections between violent / cruel videogames and real life crime / psychopathy. Even talking about boiling or burning animals and killing people on a internet spaceship forum is pretty ***** dumb. People act like assholes in eve BECAUSE it's a game. They wouldnt do it in real life. Most people who do evil things in eve are normal, moral people and they're not training themselves to become murderers by playing. There are those in real life who play video games and kill people, yes. But they're not killing people because they played video games, they're killing people because they're **** up in the head and that has nothing to do with gaming. Read the entire thread, we're all in agreement that what happens in game isn't how someone outside the game is going to act. We've moved beyond that now. Now, its just a general discussion of right and wrong and how it play within society. Yeah, some are still hanging onto the ingame/out-of-game, but thats because they like the threadnaught. But for the most part its a discussion of moral impacts gaming has on society as a whole. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 281	Posted - 2011.11.05 23:45:00 - [24] - Quote Bischopt wrote: @ Mortis No, I wont read 40 pages of this kind of babble and I apologize for the massive inconvenience it has caused. I probably wont read the next 40 pages of this babble either. Thats okay, you already stated what the other 40 pages have already stated. Its no longer a thread of whats moral in-game/out-of-game. Now its just about morality itself and what that means to everyone who plays games. o7 Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 285	Posted - 2011.11.07 02:10:00 - [25] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: I am almost a generation older than the average EvE player so you best pay attention kids. I doubt that. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 285	Posted - 2011.11.07 03:29:00 - [26] - Quote Alot of us remember Ultra-man too, but we don't act all superior because of it. And as far as real life griefing goes, I too am a product of the big green machine and have the scares to prove it, six years worth. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 296	Posted - 2011.11.07 18:21:00 - [27] - Quote Basileus Volkan wrote: Just fyi, my dear people: Quote: According to the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), in order to be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, a patient must have a persistent history of disregard for and violation of the othersGÇÖ rights, occurring since age 15, evidenced by three (or more) of the following seven traits: - Failure to conform to social norms (evidenced by repeated unlawful behaviors) - Deceitfulness, repeated lying, use of aliases, or manipulating others for personal profit or pleasure - Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead - Irritability and aggressiveness (repeated physical fights or assaults) - Reckless disregard for safety of self or others - Consistent irresponsibility (such as repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations) - Lack of remorse, indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another Incidentally this is also what it takes to get ahead in EvE and what we Goons have been doing all along. hehehehe, sounds like every US Marine I ever served with. Oohrah. +1 Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 301	Posted - 2011.11.08 12:40:00 - [28] - Quote I hate to burst everyones bubbles. But, in EVE Online, you can get back at those that have wronged you in an unscrupulous way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I&feature=relmfu Even the Empire factions gank each other http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKviRpvGXBs&feature=relmfu Its all part of the game. /thread Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 302	Posted - 2011.11.08 16:46:00 - [29] - Quote Cearain wrote: And it is likely that most of the people who blew up your merlin are no longer even in the alliance by the time you get access to those assets. Hell most of the characters may have been sold to other people by that time. And your point is? Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 305	Posted - 2011.11.08 18:02:00 - [30] - Quote ShadowandLight wrote: I've always said: If you a scum bag online to other people, you are probably a scum bag in real life. The butt hurt is strong in this one. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 305	Posted - 2011.11.08 20:19:00 - [31] - Quote Ghost of Truth wrote: THere are no rules in Eve.The game itself doesnt forces you to kill anyone.Think About it.... Uh, yes it does. Late at night when I'm sound asleep. I hear, "Kill kill kill..." coming from my computer. I run to see what is causing it, and wouldn't you know it, EVE Online is on, and my toon is talking to me, "Kill kill kill..." Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 306	Posted - 2011.11.08 20:34:00 - [32] - Quote /thread Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.

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